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Danica Out At Stewart Hass
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One Man Gang



Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 566
Location: Copperhead Road

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Midge, You got any pics of the @$$ end of that thing ? From looking at the front view I'd say it's a little tight on entry and loose on exit !!!.....I'm talking about the car. THE CAR I said 😜
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NeverTrustAMidget



Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 12150

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dominoes are starting to fall fast and frequently now. Smothfiled switching from RPM to Stewart Haas.

Sadly under Brian France NASCAR has taken on the personality of IndyCar/ IMSA/PWC where rides are decided by whom ever brings sponsorship dollars with them.

Had great chance to reduce cost when new car was introduced. Outlawed shaker machines, computers and wind tunnel testing along with off season testing. Everyone would have a clean sheet of paper to start and you cannot over spend on R & D and out spend the competition.
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PsychoTrack



Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 10822

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NASCAR has every right in the world to command the most for the money that they can get in this supply and demand capitalistic environment. If anyone else could bring a better auto sport series to the table I would think they are entitled to do so. If you believe that NASCAR isn't constantly thinking about their bottom lines and their entertainment factors then you are a total fool, midgeroo. Through the decades NASCAR and all other successful endeavors tend to go with the flow if they can reasonably enhance their businesses and their bottom lines. If NASCAR offends you by some rule or change in policy I would suggest that you just give up on their sport and walk away. I don't believe either of us have any say in what NASCAR or any other business that doesn't belong to us.

I once had an occasional customer walk into my music store. He pretty much made a nuisance of himself and then blurted out, "Do you want to know what's wrong with your business?" I replied as politely as I could, "Coming from you, no I don't." As I expected he bought his normal couple of sets of guitar strings and a few guitar picks. As he left I remarked to him, "If you work real hard, save up about $100,000 and secure a location and the wholesalers that you want to deal with then you can run your store any way you want. I have to run my store based on the decisions that I made yesterday, today and tomorrow. I do make mistakes and no one knows better the me what those mistakes are and how to repair them. I hope you understand that." Condemning NASCAR for anything that they decide to do for their bottom line is only useless mouthing from someone that has never attended one of their races anyway. And I never blame NASCAR or any other business for their operational decisions. Instead, I look for the reasons they may have for making the changes or choose to operate in the manner that they do. Normally speaking, I have little or nothing to offer that they might take seriously.
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NeverTrustAMidget



Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 12150

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PT your post reminds me of the fable of the Emperors new clothes.

For only a fool will look at today's NASCAR and think all is well. 2004 NASCAR signed a title sponsorship deal with Nextel for $75 million a year. IN 2008 when that deal was renewed and changed to Sprint(same company but name changed due to mergers in the wireless community) that annual deal was down to $50 million per year. The most recent Monster Energy deal is down to around $20 million per year. The Cup series today is actually getting less money per race in their Title sponsorship deal than Indy Car does.

Even with your common core math system it is clear that the value of the series has dropped immensely. I recall a research study from the 80s which showed that motorsports in general and NASCAR specifically had the most loyal fan base when it comes to sponsors. As over 70% of those surveyed replied that they look for those products which support racing when doing their shopping..

Today we cannot even get the drivers themselves to be loyal to their own team sponsors products.

The previous 35 rule was an attempt to protect larger teams at the expense of the smaller teams. As several sponsors discontinued their primary sponsorship deal with team not guaranteed a spot in order to spend the same amount to become secondary sponsors on a top 35 car.

The new franchise car deal is another attempt top do the same thing. Guaranteeing teams a spot each week while lesser teams have to struggles for the few remaining spots. Unfortunately the cost of sponsoring a team has risen tot he point where even franchise teams are having difficulty fielding cars. Several have used the option to lease their second franchise to another team in an attempt to raise finances to field their primary team.

As far as someone starting a new series? Where will they run? ISC controls most of the major markets and tracks directly. The ones they do not control directly they have secondary control due to placement of NASCAR events at SMI. Smith cannot take a chance of losing his NASCAR dates if he supports an outlaw series and it fails. Also not likely that a competitor to NASCAR could find an ACCUS associate to be their sanctioning partner. Without that then any driver who takes part in one of these events could lose their FIA/ACCUS license.

There are only 7 ACCUS members and France family owns two (NASCAR and IMSA) of the seven, leaving only USAC, NHRA, WKA, Indy Car, and SCCA to sanction the series.
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PsychoTrack



Joined: 26 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see you have discovered the farce of the supply side economic system that the USA claims to have, midgeroo. We DO NOT have a supply/demand market in auto racing or many other markets that we all need or enjoy. NASCAR, like other businesses, totally dominates their particular market and they guard it with great fervor. That said, the entire market of auto racing is falling into disfavor worldwide. The racing community has no idea at this stage of their evolution what to do about that. Every series out there are changing their entertainment packages as fast as they can to accommodate the ever changing market share that they might enjoy. I listened to Richard Petty about a year ago when he said that just to qualify for a Monster Energy race costs about $250,000. That really does put a lot of pressure on the marginal teams to compete. Any way it goes you can bet that NASCAR and the France family will do what they think will eternalize their sport/business.

I have never claimed that all is well in the NASCAR scenario. It isn't at all. And I don't believe for a moment that it will ever again reach the levels that disappeared years ago. But every year and sometimes in mid-year they change things up and everybody has an opinion about that. Just like I told that occasional customer that wanted to interject himself into the way I chose to run my music store I really don't care much for their suggestions and I normally just gave them all the credit they deserved which was nothing to me. Emperor's new clothes? Hardly. But I did constantly think about my businesses and made improvements as I saw fit. I profited from those serious considerations even if a few of my occasional customers didn't agree with my changes. I realized that I couldn't possibly please everyone so I have always made it my point to please myself. I can't say that was wrong in any way.
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JoeDirt



Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 684
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeverTrustAMidget wrote:
The dominoes are starting to fall fast and frequently now. Smothfiled switching from RPM to Stewart Haas.

Sadly under Brian France NASCAR has taken on the personality of IndyCar/ IMSA/PWC where rides are decided by whom ever brings sponsorship dollars with them.

Had great chance to reduce cost when new car was introduced. Outlawed shaker machines, computers and wind tunnel testing along with off season testing. Everyone would have a clean sheet of paper to start and you cannot over spend on R & D and out spend the competition.


Actually Midge, you're off base on the Brian France thing. Having to bring sponsor dollars to land a ride in NASCAR has been going on much longer than Brian France has been at the helm. As far as that very topic goes, the same thing goes on in a smaller way in WoO Sprints.
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NeverTrustAMidget



Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 12150

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoeDirt wrote:
NeverTrustAMidget wrote:
The dominoes are starting to fall fast and frequently now. Smothfiled switching from RPM to Stewart Haas.

Sadly under Brian France NASCAR has taken on the personality of IndyCar/ IMSA/PWC where rides are decided by whom ever brings sponsorship dollars with them.

Had great chance to reduce cost when new car was introduced. Outlawed shaker machines, computers and wind tunnel testing along with off season testing. Everyone would have a clean sheet of paper to start and you cannot over spend on R & D and out spend the competition.


Actually Midge, you're off base on the Brian France thing. Having to bring sponsor dollars to land a ride in NASCAR has been going on much longer than Brian France has been at the helm. As far as that very topic goes, the same thing goes on in a smaller way in WoO Sprints.


Jeff Gordon was very vocal about one of the main reasons he ended up in NASCAR was the requirement that drivers needed to bring sponsorship dollars with them in order to get a ride in Indy Car. He had moved to Indiana as a teen in order to race professionally and was surrounded by Indy Car and attempted to get rides in Indy Car.

He mentioned that the way things were set up in NASCAR the owners were open to take a chance on a younger driver.


You can look at Marcus Ambrose as the starting point for when drivers got full or multi season rides based on bringing money to the table. Was running Aussies super cars and caught the attention of some US team owners when CART/CCWS used to run same weekend at Surfers Paradise. An Australian winery put together a sponsorship package that allowed him to come to the US
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JoeDirt



Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 684
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeverTrustAMidget wrote:
JoeDirt wrote:
NeverTrustAMidget wrote:
The dominoes are starting to fall fast and frequently now. Smothfiled switching from RPM to Stewart Haas.

Sadly under Brian France NASCAR has taken on the personality of IndyCar/ IMSA/PWC where rides are decided by whom ever brings sponsorship dollars with them.

Had great chance to reduce cost when new car was introduced. Outlawed shaker machines, computers and wind tunnel testing along with off season testing. Everyone would have a clean sheet of paper to start and you cannot over spend on R & D and out spend the competition.


Actually Midge, you're off base on the Brian France thing. Having to bring sponsor dollars to land a ride in NASCAR has been going on much longer than Brian France has been at the helm. As far as that very topic goes, the same thing goes on in a smaller way in WoO Sprints.


Jeff Gordon was very vocal about one of the main reasons he ended up in NASCAR was the requirement that drivers needed to bring sponsorship dollars with them in order to get a ride in Indy Car. He had moved to Indiana as a teen in order to race professionally and was surrounded by Indy Car and attempted to get rides in Indy Car.

He mentioned that the way things were set up in NASCAR the owners were open to take a chance on a younger driver.


You can look at Marcus Ambrose as the starting point for when drivers got full or multi season rides based on bringing money to the table. Was running Aussies super cars and caught the attention of some US team owners when CART/CCWS used to run same weekend at Surfers Paradise. An Australian winery put together a sponsorship package that allowed him to come to the US



Not saying that NASCAR owners won't take a chance on a young driver based on talent. Kyle Larson is likely a prime example of that. In the end though, it still boils down to sponsors. As great as Larson is, if he runs out of sponsors he would lose that ride. IMO, the drivers needing to bring sponsors definetly pre-dates Marcus Ambrose too.
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NeverTrustAMidget



Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 12150

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoeDirt wrote:
NeverTrustAMidget wrote:
JoeDirt wrote:
NeverTrustAMidget wrote:
The dominoes are starting to fall fast and frequently now. Smothfiled switching from RPM to Stewart Haas.

Sadly under Brian France NASCAR has taken on the personality of IndyCar/ IMSA/PWC where rides are decided by whom ever brings sponsorship dollars with them.

Had great chance to reduce cost when new car was introduced. Outlawed shaker machines, computers and wind tunnel testing along with off season testing. Everyone would have a clean sheet of paper to start and you cannot over spend on R & D and out spend the competition.


Actually Midge, you're off base on the Brian France thing. Having to bring sponsor dollars to land a ride in NASCAR has been going on much longer than Brian France has been at the helm. As far as that very topic goes, the same thing goes on in a smaller way in WoO Sprints.


Jeff Gordon was very vocal about one of the main reasons he ended up in NASCAR was the requirement that drivers needed to bring sponsorship dollars with them in order to get a ride in Indy Car. He had moved to Indiana as a teen in order to race professionally and was surrounded by Indy Car and attempted to get rides in Indy Car.

He mentioned that the way things were set up in NASCAR the owners were open to take a chance on a younger driver.


You can look at Marcus Ambrose as the starting point for when drivers got full or multi season rides based on bringing money to the table. Was running Aussies super cars and caught the attention of some US team owners when CART/CCWS used to run same weekend at Surfers Paradise. An Australian winery put together a sponsorship package that allowed him to come to the US



Not saying that NASCAR owners won't take a chance on a young driver based on talent. Kyle Larson is likely a prime example of that. In the end though, it still boils down to sponsors. As great as Larson is, if he runs out of sponsors he would lose that ride. IMO, the drivers needing to bring sponsors definetly pre-dates Marcus Ambrose too.


You may have some isolated incidents of this happening with some of the back marker teams. But nothing near what we have seen in recent years. Tommy Baldwin put her in a cup car ONLY because she brought Go Daddy big bucks with her.

Nothing in her production in the Xfinity series justified her promotion to cup so soon. But the Go Daddy money got her a Cup ride. 2010 She was running Indy Car and part time in Xfinity and by 2012 she was in Cup. Tommy Baldwin sold her a ride due to Go Daddy


Compare that to Lil Ricky. Here he is lucky to be in the right place at the right time and substituted for injured racer in USAC. Gaining the attention of Roush who signs him in 2007. But it is for an ARCA ride for 2008 and a move up to Xfinity part time in 2009.. Then full time in 2010. He runs Xfinity for 3 full seasons before moving up to Cup. After winning two titles.
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JoeDirt



Joined: 27 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^^ Sure wish he had attracted the attention of Hendrick or Gibbs rather than Roush....
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